No Coast Oriental
No Coast Oriental
E8: Dissecting the Debate on Cultural Appropriation
In this episode of No Coast Oriental, James and Stevie talk cultural appropriation. A common talking point in the discussion on race and social justice, cultural appropriation is when one culture adopts elements of another culture. Join us as we talk tattoos and Sushiritos, and as we attempt to create a definition for the term, consider its neutrality, and try to answer difficult questions in regard to cultural appropriation in the Asian-American community.
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All right. Welcome to No Coast Oriental, my name is Stevie. I'm joined by my co-host James. This is a podcast where we examine Asian-American culture from a Midwest perspective, which I actually don't know if I've ever, if we've ever said that in a podcast, but that's what this is. Anyways, disclaimer We talk about some controversial issues, some heated issues, but we don't want to project our own experiences onto other people. So whatever we say, it's just coming from our own experiences, what we've heard. Don't take it as truth, we don't want to make the mistake of speaking for anyone else besides ourselves. So just take what we say with a grain of salt. It's just our views from our viewpoints.
James:Okay. Our views from our view. Um, yes. Today on this episode of no Coast Oriental, we're talking cultural appropriation. Fun. We've been waiting for this one. This is, this is on the big list. Before we get into this topic, Stevie, what are you drinking today?
Stevie:I'm drinking a beer. I think in the last, in the last week or so. Last week. And a half. There have been three days where I've gotten less than like four hours of sleep.
James:I've been getting my sleep, but I have not been getting rest, if that makes sense. I've been working like 70 hour weeks, so like it's a good time.
Stevie:That sounds terrible.
James:No, It's the hustle. Am I right?#RiseAndGrind,#entrepreneur. So yeah, I mean it's what you gotta do. It's a part of life. Cultural appropriation. Let's start, uh, I guess to start, um, we're going to define cultural appropriation, which, you know, it is what it- it's when you appropriate a culture. But if you want a better description, I took this from Wikipedia because there's a lot of sources out there, but I feel like the Wikipedia page is probably so heavily contested that at some point you've just g ot t o meet in the middle and like have one neutral definition. So cultural appropriation. Yeah, Wikipedia's a great source for those of you who are told not to use it... Always use it.
Stevie:Um, but cultural appropriation at times also phrase cultural misappropriation is the adoption adoption of elements by of one culture, by members of another culture. This can be controversial when members of a dominant culture appropriate from disadvantaged minority cultures in the context of, I guess the recent, the current climate and social justice. I also took from the SJ Wiki, SJW icky. Uh, what sounds like your s u s you're saying SJWs are achy? No, that's not what I'm saying. If you're an s j if you self identify as an SJW, you are not icky. But this is from SJW. EQI No, I just have the humor of an eight year old go on a sleep deprived. No coast oriental is doing great right now. Uh, from SJW, SJ wiki cultural appropriation is the process by which a member of a dominant culture, for example, a[inaudible] western white nail sis headaches is a CIS het. Yeah, I looked it up. Ah, gender heterosexual view Hickey page for that doesn't actually have any con content, but apparently it's, it's a, uh, what is it? It's an amalgamation of suspenders and Portmanteau of cisgender and heterosexual. There we go. I assists hat western White Male, pardon me, takes or uses quote on quote appropriates aspects of another culture. Often a colonized culture without that culture is permission and or without any understanding of the deeper cultural meanings behind the appropriated term. Um, despite it being from SJ Wiki, I actually think that, uh, I mean like, well, regardless of what you think of STW is that this is actually a pretty decent definition of cultural appropriation, at least for the conversation we're having specifically that last part where like you talked about understanding the cultural meanings behind like an item. Yeah. So I would say when this is probably more accurate to like the popular vernacular use of cultural appropriation, whereas I think the Wikipedia definition is more, um, uh, maybe just like literally, yeah. Much more literal. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I kind of on top of that, uh, you've heard if you've heard other episodes of no coast oriental, uh, you've heard Stevie and myself from time say it, that cultural appropriation is more or less a neutral term. Um, yeah. And cultural appropriation in of itself is not a good or bad thing. I agree. Um, I wrote here, I think the term cultural misappropriation, which was used in the Wikipedia article is more suitable to describe what like in our current dialogue, cultural appropriation is. But in the context of this podcast, there are times where we talk about cultural appropriation and it's not necessarily a negative thing. And so overall I would say, yeah, like I agree that's probably a neutral term. Stevie, I know you want to dive a little bit into this statement. So, um, I would recommend watching Lindsay Alice's, uh, video on Pocahontas. Um, let me look up the exact it, her definition begins around 13 minutes and that video, um, she's also, she's like one of the most well-spoken video SAS on youtube right now, I would say. Um, and she, she does a very good example of explaining this term. Um, she dives into an in Indian Bollywood movie that, uh, is set in New York. And so that's an example of where like, um, uh, a colonized culture if you will, appropriate, uh, aspects of a dominant culture, which is kind of the reverse of the Staw wiki definition. Okay. Um, yeah, I ate, I think usually the conversation for cultural appropriation, I guess I would say five or six years back was really surrounding, um, like native American culture. Yes, definitely. Yeah, I think that that was the big one and I think that's why there's a big emphasis on like appropriating a colonized cultures. Um, I guess items or whatever they might have. Uh, but I think in the last, like since then, I think that cultural appropriation has grown like kind of broader and applies to most minority groups, even from time to time, like dominant cultures. And, um, there's been more conversation around cultural appropriation as a whole, which has made people made like videos like Lindsay Ellis' where, you know, you say something like cultural appropriation is a neutral term, may make more sense. Because a lot of times, like, at least for me, when I was like six years old, not six years old, six years ago when I was like 15, 16 years old, um, I thought cultural appropriation was all in all like a terrible thing. Right. Um, but I think the term has evolved. Uh, I think the conversation has kind of evolved a little bit. I think we're comfortable saying that, right? Yeah. Um, in regards to no coast oriental, obviously we're talking about Asian American culture. Um, so I think it's fitting probably to talk about the f like first talk about like instances where others appropriate Asian American culture, um, at least kind of how we outlined this. Hmm. So you brought up, if you would like to say the word, um, okay. I'm going to get shit for this, but I believe it's pronounced. What does it, uh, cheap Paul? Is that it's cheap hall. Cheap Hall. Okay. It's, it's like a traditional, uh, Chinese dress that's rather form fitting. It was born out of Shanghai in the 20s. Um, and so the reason we bring this up is, I think it was last year or within the last two years. Um, there was a high school girl who I won't name to know whatever, uh, but she or she found one at, um, I guess it was like, um, a used clothes store. Uh, maybe like goodwill or something. Uh, she thought was really pretty and she wore it to prom. Right. And she got a lot of shit online for this cause she's white. Um, and I thought this was a very interesting jumping off point. Um, one of the things that interested me the most about this event was that oddly enough, a lot of Chinese social media, I was pretty okay with it. They were like,[inaudible] not even okay with it. Like a, like pretty happy about it. They're like, oh, it's like a lot of people were expressing the sentiment that they, um, they felt pride in the fact that, you know, this like white and American girl found a traditional Chinese dress like beautiful enough to wear to prom. Whereas I think most of the outreach came from Asian Americans.
Speaker 3:Yeah,
Stevie:yeah, I noticed that as well. Um,
Speaker 3:it's,
Stevie:I dunno, uh, it's an interesting, is it problematic? The answer is like yes and no. Right. And I mean, I, I think the answer is no really. Yeah. I, my personal take on this, when I first heard the story, um, when it broke I guess was I like, I was personally kind of like, I was like, I was like on board for it, you know? Um, because, uh, in my mind I'm like imagining, okay, high school can be a pretty rough and judgmental place if, if this girl feels comfortable enough to wear like a non traditional like, uh, in the American sense, non traditional dress to prom, which was like one of the biggest events of a lot of high schoolers lives up to that point. Then like more power to her. You know, I think that in her confidence it kind of uplifts like our culture as well. Um, but one thing I really wanted to bring up was, uh, Brandon, who's one of our, uh, contributors, I guess he, uh, brought up a really good point that I'd never heard before. And I think it's worth reiterating here. So he said that it wasn't that a white person wearing a cheapo is inherently bad, but that a lot of Asian American girls grew up wearing cheap Paul's at formal events and were laughed at and made fun of because chief paws were weird or unusual and someone of privilege does it and everyone says that she looks beautiful, amazing, et Cetera. And so I think a lot of Asian Americans were upset that she didn't consider the cultural history or importance of her wearing something that Asian Americans were regularly made fun of wearing. Uh, yeah, so a really good point. Yeah. Yeah, that's a, yeah, that's a really apt observation. Um, it's, it represents this interesting, um, like, okay. So I, I came across this term during research today called third culture, which I'm just going to Google real quick, just double check third culture. Okay. Um, so third, according to Wikipedia, third culture kids are people raised in a culture other than the parents culture or the culture of the country on their passport for a significant part of their early development years. Um, so this is, you know, the experience of a lot of Asian Americans were there. No, maybe like it says, it's this trope of like, you don't feel Asian enough, but at the same time you don't feel like American enough, you know, you're stuck in this limbo between two cultural worlds. Um, and so I think that manifests itself really interestingly here because this is a aspect of our culture that we should be proud of, but that a lot of us felt a lot of embarrassment for because our parents made us wear traditional dress as kids. And so we now still carry that embarrassment with us. Yet when, once when someone who outside of our culture tries to look at that in an appreciative way, then our reaction coming from that embarrassment is like, uh, uh, I guess like anger and like putting them down. You know, I don't know. It's still a little hard for me to process entirely because I think it does elicit a very complex emotional response. Did you, um, do you have anything in your life kinda similar to that? Um, not really. Not, not like, not in terms of cultural appropriation. Like definitely I've felt, you know, this like third culture limbo where I'm like stuck between these two cultural worlds, not entirely one or the other. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I, well, okay. Actually, yeah. One thing. So, uh, I have a tattoo and I've been thinking about getting a second tattoo for a while now. Um, and even when I was thinking about getting my first Tattoo, um, I, one of my ideas was to get like some sort of, uh, Chinese symbolism or just like trying to scare cause my body, but that's a trope that's so prevalent and overused and done badly in a lot of cases in tattoo art that I'd felt like it would if I like, it just seems like a tacky to me, you know, which sucks because a lot of Chinese tattoos are like, or a lot of, uh, Chinese symbolic tattoos are like super, super cool. You know, you have like dragging sometimes very, uh, but because I feel like it's so overdone, like, um, it makes me want that kind of tattoo less. And I think that's Kinda, it kinda sucks. Yeah. Um, I have no tattoos, but I thought about getting them for a while and I still might, but, um, one of the big fears for me is kind of like that, where it's like, if I'm getting a tattoo, I know lots of people get tattoos that are like shitty just to get them right. And like that's a part of the culture of getting tattoos. But, um, I, if I get a first tattoo, it's kind of probably one I want to mean something. And a lot of times that obviously goes back to like my heritage, but Chinese style tattoos are really overdone. Um, and it's like, it just doesn't, it seems to me like it just be kind of basic. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I mean, that's not a good thing. That's clearly not a good thing. But, um, yeah, it's a, now that you bring it up thinking about it, that's I think one of the big reasons why I don't have a tattoo. Cause Yeah. Yeah. Tattoos nowadays are Kinda Dope, Kinda kind of hip right now. Um, I at the same time, um, I think one thing that's one thing I also thought about was, um, it's also like, do am I familiar enough with my own heritage to like get a tattoo? Excuse me, a tattoo like that.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Stevie:Yeah. Right. And I think I brought this up in one of our first episodes where I'm at one point the podcast, the stoop, which is a great podcast on, uh, issues across the black diaspora. They pose the question like if an African American who's been, you know, whose family has been in this country for generations, uh, if they were like African attire, is that cultural appropriation? And I, because, you know, because they themselves have never experienced that. Maybe, maybe their family's so removed. So many generations have moved from that, that it's no longer a part of, you know, any memory, any familiar memory for them and so on, in a similar manner. It's like, you know, by adopting aspects of Chinese culture, am I, is that cultural appropriation on my part that's, um, that's a really difficult question. Uh, I think, uh, I don't know. I mean, no, I guess in a sense it is, but like, it's like in a good way, right? Like in some sense you as a person, like you were born, like if you're born in America and you grow up here and you develop an American and an American identity, right? That doesn't necessarily like for us at least as like people who are first, second generation, 1.5 generation, whatever it is. Um, I think we've agreed on second generation at this point. Yeah. Yeah. So as people who are second generation, um, it's easy for us to say like, yeah, we're like Kinda half Chinese, half American, right? Or wherever you are from. Um, but I also think that if you are a couple of generations down the line and, um, have been un-american American for a long time, that I still think it's, it's still important to know like where you came from. I don't know. Um, I know some people who are like half Irish or like German or something and they've been in America, like their family has been in America like maybe a century now. But because you're from like Chicago where there was a big Irish or German population, right, you still know that and you still like identify with that. Right. Um, is it cultural appropriation to do so? I mean, in a sense if you have grown up and you identify with an American culture and there's very few traces of like what I guess makes you Asian, sure. I might be right. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't there's a part ask question. Okay. Uh, so I mean that is the biggest, um, I guess the biggest example that's recently happened where it's like one specific example for appropriation, um, of like Asian cultures. I think a lot of times, I think for a while people also had an issue with, um, I think it was Nike who tried to make, um, hey jobs or burkas that were athletic[inaudible] and like decorated. Um, which to me is like interesting because it's a move toward inclusivity, but I think people saw it as a business move. Am I good marketing employee? Which sucks. Um, which is funny how like, I mean like Western companies can do something like this and then like get totally shit on, but like, I don't know, it just, it's just a weird scenario for me. Um, but I think that that wasn't a recent example of like cultural appropriation as well. Um, and then there's always the big debates around like, uh, movies that are Asian themed. And then also there's the big debates around, um, Asian fusion restaurants. Yeah, I was going to say too, I feel like we talked a lot of what we talked about in our last episode, which was on, was that last steps on food. Our last episode was, uh, was on, um, it's been a week. Okay. Are The the food episode. Um, I feel like a lot of what we talked about there is episodes back, I think. No. Yeah. Huh. It was episode 65. It was episode five. Food was episode five.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Stevie:No Way. Am I going crazy? Do you feel all now? I felt old for a while. Yeah. Invert the movie shit. It was episode five. Right? All right. Anyways, what we talking about in episode five, um, like a lot of that is applicable here, right? Like, um, like the whole idea of Chinese takeout is an American intervention. Yeah. Um, fortune cookies are American, but they were originally a Japanese that
Speaker 4:was adapted to be fortune cookies in America. Yeah. It's not as, there's, there's already a market for Chinese food, but not for Japanese food yet. Yeah. Japanese food is up there as like a good example of cultural appropriation I'd say. Because for a long time, um, Japanese food had a really hard time trying to break into America because the idea of eating raw fish is disgusting. Even though people will sit down at a table and break open a lobster with their bare heads. Yeah. Uh, but like eating raw fish was gross. Right. And so there was, uh, was a niggery and Sashimi. Right. And, um, so the dude who created the Maki Roll, which I believe is just roll roll, but that might not be true. Uh, he invented, he meant to roles like the California roll and stuff solely so that Sushi could be a bit more, um, palatable in America. Yeah. And look where we are now. And then they're also amalgamation is like, ah, have you ever had a Sushi? Rudo I don't want to have as soon as you read. Oh, I don't want to, in my opinion, it's just like too much rice to everything else. Like, because it does not scale well. Um, but yeah, it's, it's basically, uh, go to Puerto Rico, like, oh no, this is a Sushi place. Yeah. So yeah, so they have the rice and then like they have the fillings and then instead of a Tortilla they have, um, what is it, Nori? Is that the seaweed wrap? Yeah, Nori. Yeah. So I changed my, I've changed my mind. Cultural appropriation is a clearly negative term after hearing that, it's changed my mind. Oh, what isn't that just a, isn't that the Korean food? The one like Korean snack wrap situation where it's B, it looks like Sushi, but it's not. I think it's called Kimbap. Um, I think I know, I know of a Japanese thing that's similar to that. Yeah. You're probably thinking of a only Gary, but I'm thinking of a Kimbap, which is like a, they're just like, they look like it's like a big Sushi roll. No. Okay. I'll send you a, I'll send you a picture of a Sushi. Rido or just Google Sushi Rito. No, I'm fine. I don't need this. You are the website Sushi rito.com the original Sushi burrito concept.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Just hearing Sushi know gives me a hypertension. Like, I'm sorry if you have hypertension. I'm sorry, but start in the San Francisco Bay area. Yeah, of course it did. It's called a Sushi Rito. In what world are there two cultures that are, hold on so prevalent. Okay. Give me a second. I'm looking something up. Um, who this Sushi?
Stevie:This Sushi Rito. Wait, hold on, give me a second. Um, his name is Peter yen.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Stevie:Um, oh, I started Sushi riot. Pardon
Speaker 4:me? Sushi Rito.
Stevie:And there is a, a, a r with a circle next to it. The registered mark.
Speaker 6:Okay.
Speaker 4:The original Sushi for Rido concept. Yeah. Does he is a concept. So does he, do you think he licenses there Sushi read concept out to other like you go to, you go to an AMC in the bay area and go see a movie and you just see as soon as you read stand.
Stevie:Okay. I mean I have had one before. They're not bad. I just does not for me. You said the rice to Rice to everything else ratio is enormous. Yeah. Because I, okay. No, I don't want to get into this. I'm going to get like, start talking too much like an engineer. If I get into this. Anyways,
Speaker 4:thank you. Are about the civil engineer a better Susie Reno. Yeah. Watch out. Peter. They Peter. Yeah. Peter yen. Oh Wow. Shout out Peter. Yeah. This issue reader. Sorry. Sorry. We re sorry. I roasted your burrito. Sushi. Your Sushi Burrito. Um, it sounds fire there.
Stevie:Like there's so many examples of cultural appropriation and food. Um, uh, even like beyond like Korean Tacos, you know, another, uh, another like, um, Mexican, uh, Asian amalgamation.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Stevie:Way more fire than a Sushi Rito, I have to say. Ah, yeah. Korean. Most things that have any sort of like Korean marinated food is outstanding
Speaker 4:and that's just, that's just how, that's just the way the world works.
Speaker 6:Okay.
Speaker 4:That's so, yeah. The, we, if you want to hear more about, uh, food, we've got episode five food at how it shapes your identity. Yeah. Do you remember
Stevie:about the restaurant duck duck coat in that episode? Yeah. You did? I synced that episode. I have actually gone to duck duck goat.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Stevie:Oh yeah. Can you give me your quick little review? The food is, I would say pretty authentic. Like, uh, I got like, uh, like meatless Mapo for and it was like pretty like authentic, I would say.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Stevie:Um, it's meatless so it's not authentic. Okay. Well, you know you can make money with Mapo Tofu.
Speaker 4:Is that what you're going to make when you come over?
Stevie:No. Oh, okay. I have a birthday party this Sunday. Stevie's invited. It's
Speaker 4:drawn on. All everyone listening to this podcast is retroactively invited. Yeah. I know you're hearing this on Thursday, but you're invited. Cancel your plans. Oh wait, we are releasing this before. Yeah. We're releasing this before. Buy Birthday party. So that's pretty awesome. I hope people come. No, don't do not. Do not come to either of our domiciles. I'm on the duck duck. Go chicago.com website and it says a reasonably authentic Chinese
Speaker 6:dude. They're on. So did you like that?
Speaker 4:It's amazing. The guy who created it, first of all, this website is, it needs a little bit of work, but that's not their fault. Reasonably authentic Chinese food web is right here. Also visit us at girl and the goat, little goats diner, goat group, catering, Stephanie Eyes, ard.com Stephanie, Stephanie Izard is the founder. Oh, so Stephanie is, or it sat down in a room and said, I want to start a authentic Chinese restaurant, but only reasonably so. You know, I can appreciate that she is admitting that it's only reasonably authentic. Oh, I think it might be like it's authentic, but it's also palatable to white people who don't want to probably eat like, um, certain things like they're not, they're not like reasonably authentic. Like you walk in and there's like a market and there's a dude try to sell you durian like that. It'd be unreasonable for Americans. Um, it's like grill Shishito pepper a Chinese dish.
Speaker 3:Um,
Speaker 4:because I don't think I've ever had that in a Chinese setting, but they had it there. I was pretty fire. Shishito pepper. I um, I mean,
Speaker 3:okay.
Speaker 4:I've seen cheeto sounds Asian. Oh it is an East Asian Friday. Shishido this is a very hard word to say for somebody whose English is not great and whose Japanese is far limited. It's literally she, she toe like wash your head. Oh, it's Chinese. I thought it was Chevony. What have I done? Let's cut that out. Sushi toe. Oh, okay. Anyways, Cari, go to, there we go. That's your, okay. Korean lesson today on users. What is our, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm ranting it back here. Let's bring it back. What, what, what is our take again on cultural appropriation as it pertains to food? Like for me as far as cultural appropriation goes, like with food, if you're doing something or original
Stevie:and like Groovy, I mean just like take some time to like figure out what the traditional techniques are cause like the world are East Asian and Asian cooking in general is very different from western style cooking as, as a person who cooks at home. Myself, I, my knowledge of this is only slightly above limited, but like, I don't know if you've done a little bit of research or like a good amount of research traveled the world, figured all your shit out. Like I mean that restaurant by Gordon Ramsey sounds fire, right? Like, yeah, I don't, I think as long as you're honest and respectful and you can admit that your food is the only reasonably authentic, then yeah. Like find way me out of their way to put an extra word there. That's so funny. You know, I, a side side note, um, one of my friends, she wrote, uh, like in an essay about how like,
Speaker 6:MMM[inaudible]
Stevie:I dunno if it was exactly cultural appropriation, but it was about how like instant ramen, American instant ramen kind of like created this like negative image of Asian food.
Speaker 6:So
Stevie:I have to, I have to fact check this, but I believe that Ramen, instant ramen sold in the u s has much higher sodium and m particularly MSG content then that's sold in Asian countries to appeal more to the American Palette. And I think because of that, like a lot of Americans develop this notion that Chinese or Asian East Asian food was like very salty, heavy MSG and just like that, that was their, like their impression of it. And like maybe not today, but like that, like ramen was like, oh, a cheap food. You know? Also MSG is a racist marketing tactic. Yeah. Yeah. People named MSG looked bad because Chinese restaurants used it. It's fine. It's like fine for you in moderation, like salt. It's literally assault. Yeah. Okay. Anyway. Um, that's, I mean, so we've covered food, right? Go, got some movies in there, you know, kill Bill. Isn't that like Asian themed or something like that? But then again, it tells him like it's a terantin a movie. Like, like the main characters literally inspired by Bruce Lee. Yeah. And um, I mean, what else we got? We talked about like ghost in the shell or some Oh, oh, oh, like, like white washing. Yeah, we, yeah, we've talked about white washing before and like these are, these are all fun and good. You can make the assessment on your own, whether or not these are like good things, but really at the core of it, if you appropriate culture, it can be good, but just like, it's not, it's not like one of those things where it's like you texted an Asian friend and you're like, Hey, is this okay? And your Asian friends, like, I mean, I'm not going to speak for all Asians. It's, it's one of those things where you have to go out of your way, do some research and understand what's like the deeper cultural side of that. Right? Yeah. So what Lindsay Ellis brings up is that usually it's more controversial and this is the Astra w Wiki definition here. Usually it's more controversial when a historically dominant culture appropriates aspects of a historically a colonized culture, whereas the reverse is not usually that controversial. Um, so in our notes, the section we just went over was called instances where, uh, others appropriate Asian American culture. I kind of want to jump ahead for a bit and talk about instances where Asian Americans appropriate other culture. Yeah,
Speaker 6:yeah. Um,
Stevie:this happens a lot. We've talked about this. Yeah. We've talked about, um, the Asian American like EDDM seem hip hop scene, right? And these are essentially Asian-Americans trying to create their own communities within what are usually dominant, like white spaces or dominant black spaces. Uh, black and Latino I guess. And um, uh, I would say it's really popular in like,
Speaker 6:okay.
Stevie:I mean, yeah, those are the big two. I can tell. I can, I notice when I think of like, when Asian-Americans do like appropriate other cultures, it's like in music. Right? And that's also because like, you know, I don't, I don't, I'll be honest and say that last time I went to China, right. I don't really think that their modern music has like any substance. And that's partially, you know, because like the labels and China, like don't do a great job. Um, but I also don't think that like, oftentimes like, I mean, maybe there will be a time in like 30, 40 years from now where like traditional Chinese music and like Chinese opera will be on the radio. But I highly doubt it. And so, because music is such a big part of like my life, I figure it's a big part of a lot of other people's lives. And so they probably like, I mean, we all probably want to find some sort of community and in something like the EDM scene or the hip hop scene, um, you've got a lot of people who are into the same things and like do the same sort of like research as you and wanna like, you know, enjoy music together as a community for some reason or another. That's like my big example. I can't, um, I don't know if it's justified, but I think that I tried to provide a justification for it and I think it kind of is. So, yeah. But you had two that you listed, or three I guess. Yeah. So, um, I think, uh, in this particular case, uh, talking about Asian-Americans appropriate and other cultures, uh, it's much more of a two street. Um, you see this a lot in pop cultures. So, uh, a comparison some people make is that like, um, Asian pop music or, yeah, what's popular in Asian music while fresh, while like fresh is like 20 years lagging behind like western music, like for example, like j pop and k pop has heavily influenced by the boy band culture of like the early two thousands.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Stevie:Yeah. But it has become its own thing, you know, and it's like a two way street. So a perfect example of this two way street is, um, anime, which up?
Speaker 5:Okay.
Stevie:You can't get it up. Nobody can see that. The gestures you make when you say that we're not a video podcast, I don't want to expose me. I look like a gorilla right now. I look like neanderthal. So anime was born and a Mongo were born out of post World War Two, Japan as where a lot of aspects of a modern Japanese culture. Um, so, you know, early animate took a lot from early American animation and then, uh, you know, they created hit like classics, like, um, you know, astro boy was one of the first ones, and then that was dubbed into America. And then, you know, the u s animation started adapting aspects of Japanese animation. And then this like back and forth started happening, right? Um, and now, you know, today like a lot of animates, like heavily influenced by, um, uh, by the, the like, like us culture. So for example, like I'm in my here academia or book or here academia, which is like one of the most popular animated that's, uh, currently Erin right now. Um, one of the most power, the most powerful, uh, character in that show. Zam is all mite. He's like a classic, like Captain America, like Superman, like standing. Um, he's even drawn differently in anime and Manga. He's shaded much more intensely, like the style of, of uh, mid 20th century, uh, American comic books. Um, and then like vice versa, you have a lot of American animation that a lot of people including me would consider anime, like, uh, a Avatar. The last airbender shows like that have used. So that's, uh, watched the animal, the hit a series on Netflix. Uh, have you watched augured? Uh, Aggretsuko no, I've heard of it. Brian Washington. It's so good. Season two just came out as fire. Um, maybe about the people who've made hello kitty. It's lit. Okay. Um, but yeah, I mean like, uh, yeah, yeah. I, I think when it comes to Asian Asians appropriating other culture, it is oftentimes much more of a two way street, although not always. Um, kind of one example I want to bring up is, um, where in a case where it's not is and where I think it's a little, uh, maybe a little gray urban area is, I feel like, um, not a large portion, but definitely a sizable minority of, um, like Asian youth now are, I would say, appropriating aspects of black American culture. I agree. Right. So like you can make that argument for most if not all of 88 rising. Um, and Japan, there's a small niche movement called[inaudible] stylers who, uh, tried to emulate being black basically. Oh, that sounds really bad. Um, so they'll know, you'll see them wearing like la Dodgers stuff like chains, like lots of you see in hip hop attire. Uh, but then it goes, there's some take it a step farther, you know, like, uh, curling their hair and dying it. Um, so that's, you know, like, so they curl their hair to make it, to give a similar fact of, you know, a lot of black woman and um,[inaudible] us, uh, especially, and then they bleach it to achieve a similar color to when black women and believes their hair. Right. Um, and then I think where it kind of definitely crosses over the line maybe is, uh, a lot of them also use like skin darkness to darken their skin. Um, W A and like, that's especially like out there in Japan because like, in East Asian countries especially, it's like a lot of people use skin white or skin bleachers cause like, um, like rather than wanting to be tan, people want to be like, uh, more like, not white, like in a very sense, but like, just like,
Speaker 5:yeah.
Stevie:You know what I mean? Like more, yeah. Lighter skinned. Yeah. So for someone to use a skin dark ner yeah. So for somebody who's a skin darker, it's not only, I mean, now like, aside from it being like problematic in a lot of ways, it's like very countercultural. Um, oh my goodness. I didn't know you were going to drop the beast styler on me. What the, yeah. Uh,[inaudible] from 2014 on this, I just looked this up and, uh, I read that, I looked at that advice article. Um, yeah, so they interviewed this girl, Kay. He, Anna, um, I, I do not think so. I, for me it's a hard no face you made when I asked that, uh, I, I don't think it's okay. I don't think there's a lot there. There's not a bug there, but like I also want to say, okay, I will say that.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Stevie:I think it would be different if this was coming from Asian American youth. Yeah. Um, I think being in a, in
Speaker 4:like a East Asia, they're far enough removed where they might not understand like the implications of like what they're doing and like for example, opening a boutique, uh, in Tokyo where the tagline is black for life.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Like in many ways it's the same fetishization of another race that you see perpetuated by Americans sometimes. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:And it makes me feel equally confused and uncomfortable. Yeah. It's just, Oh wow, that's cute. Today I learned about the styling Japanese people who want to work just as a qualifier. Even in the vice article. I'm the author kind of points out that this is definitely not a big trend. It's very, very niche. Yeah. I think, um, well I think I'm more, uh, I think a, um, a more closely like kind of like relatable but also like concerning sort of like appropriation will just be in K-pop and eastern media in general in their attempt to like kind of replicate black sounds and like black music and then also black fashion, right? Like hip hop in K-pop. Yeah. So for example, rap monster and uh, bts. Okay. Like just they have to meet, I'm not familiar with that. Familiar with cable. Oh yeah. So like a lot of times like just like the way that they're styled and dressed as like, um, there's a big focus on street wear and on like streetwear culture, which yeah. Is a pretty universal like thing. Right. But it is, I guess I, uh, if not a black thing than like a western thing, you know what I mean? Yeah. And um, I don't know. I think that that's like something that is a little bit more, um, mainstream than be styling. But yeah. And my styling, Steve's like an interesting extreme. Like, even going back to my comment about k pop and j pop being based on boy band culture, like boy band culture and itself was whitewashing because like it's the same thing that happened with Elvis where they wanted to take a black sound and make it more like palatable, you know, like some would say in sync is just white boys to men. Never make that comparison ever again. You should, you should be, you should be ashamed at yourself. You also mentioned baseball. Yeah, no, baseball is in another like example. So like baseball like very obviously came from the u s to Japan. Uh, it's the only in its hemisphere
Stevie:that really plays baseball. Um, I mean I, I guess you can like count cricket as like a similar sport, but, um, yeah, that, I mean, I, so neither of us are Japanese, so this is kind of, uh, not really our place to speak on. But yeah, modern Japanese culture is really interesting because a lot of its culture was very forcibly pushed on them, you know? Yeah. Like no postwar two gunboat diplomacy, all that stuff. Rapid modernization. Um,
Speaker 6:okay.
Stevie:Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think what's important is that like they took it and make it, made it their own, you know?
Speaker 6:Yeah. Um,
Stevie:so let's talk, so what we've talked about really is like Asians appropriating western culture. Are there instances where Asian Americans appropriate western culture or like another culture that you can think of that are in the media that are relevant for the discussion? I mean, I think we've also talked about this before where like a lot of Asian American youth, um, trend towards either black or white. Yeah. And the, they see this like American culture divide into this dichotomy.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Hmm.
Stevie:So that, that might be an example or their time. So we kind of talked about this earlier, but a similar question. Can Asian Americans appropriate Asian culture? I think so. I think definitely yes. Um, do you think Boba is cultural appropriation?
Speaker 6:Uh,
Stevie:my answer is no. And the reason why is because the guy created it for white people, Huh? Basically. No, it's not, that's not exactly what it is. But he created this thing and he's like, tourists will love this, we'll call it Boba. Which is Taiwanese slang for boobs. Okay. And like, I think he's just like getting a kick out of like all these westerners come in and being like, this is the world's first a Boba store.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Yeah. But I also mean like
Stevie:in, in the U S it's so much of a meme to like get Boba, you know, but maybe for you it's not a meme for me. I take my Boba very seriously. We only have one decent place. Okay. Yeah. I've gotten Boba like alleys every day or at least every other day of the past two weeks. Yeah. I would say the Boba here is reasonably inauthentic.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Stevie:But, um, yeah, like whenever I go back to chat and like that stuff we're not, I'm not like, oh, let's go get Boba, you know, that's not really right. It's like, Oh man, I'll get it like a couple of times while I'm there. But that's it. Yeah. Um, I don't think I've gone, I've gone to above with place and trying to have gotten to one and I've gotten bubble one time and it actually was right outside of the movie theater. Okay.
Speaker 4:Right next to the Sushi Rito. I want to pose this question. Yes sir. Should I be ashamed to like Panda Express? No. Absolutely not. Why don't you talk good panics. Resist. There's a reason why it's a big chain. It's fire. This is like, like just like, it's like McDonald's dude. Everybody says, oh I hate McDonald's. But that like two in the morning you're driving around and then all of a sudden you pass by big chicken time. C'Mon to be through panda express was started by a Chinese couple I think. Yeah. So, and they have the best orange chicken. It doesn't matter who you ask. Yeah, yeah. Steven that don't, you wouldn't go, you would stop being vegan for that orange chicken. I actually had panda express is exploring Vegan options, so that makes me excited or anything. I have the IMP impossible meat. Well, Burger kings during that and possible whoppers. Yeah, I think every chain except for RVs and Taco Bell and apparently panda express was not doing it well. That's, do you think that's also cause like impossible foods and that other one? Um, there are too, like, like fake meat comp. It startups. Right. And they're both just like arms racing it out into like every single possible outlet they can. Oh, definitely. Yeah. I learned the other day that when people Google, uh, should I buy stock in the 10th most searched option is should I buy stock in beyond meat?
Speaker 3:Hm.
Speaker 4:I'm pretty sure. Are they a PR public company? Yeah. Uh, oh. Impossible foods recently went public beyond meat when public first.
Speaker 3:Hm.
Speaker 4:Uh, no, you shouldn't be ashamed of like Panda Express. That's all I've got for you yet. I think that panda express is a national is an American treasure. I, okay. I don't know if this was just a rumor. So I'm going to, so obviously I'm gonna be irresponsible and just say it on our podcast, but I know this is great for rumors. I swear that growing up the panda express in our hometown or like the neighboring hometown when they were in town, maybe, I don't know which town is actually in. I swear people told me that they put the Asian employees up front so it would seem more authentic. Did you ever hear that? I would not doubt it as a person in the service industry. I can tell you that that is 100% likely. Like, I mean, I worked at a Sushi restaurant for a year and what did I, what did I do? I would serve people, right? Well, we have white employees, arch our kitchen, our chef in the kitchen was white, but our Sushi chefs were Asian. It's lit a, I mean like, you know, what are you going to do? Try to look reasonably and authentic? I don't think so. You want to be reasonably authentic? Am I right or am I right? But, um, I don't know if that's a problem. Similar to Panda Express. It's like, ah, there's this restaurant and mono-line called dragon star and it's like, whoa. Never. I'm pretty sure it's Chinese owned, but it's like very, very catered to the American Palette. I mean, isn't that like if you, have you ever gotten to like an Asian buffet? Yeah, they're owned by Asian people. Put like everything there is just like the same fried chicken with a different, slightly different sauce. But those places are pretty good. Yeah, exactly. I don't know here is it, is it cultural appropriation? Is that cultural perforation? Like I just realized like this segment of this episode, right? Like not the whole episode, right, but this specific segment where we talk about whether or not it's problematic to eat orange chicken, this is the part of the episode that I care so little about the conclusion for and only want to hear all the privacies. I want to hear every question that you might have for this. I want to say, oh, just like should I eat the orange chicken or or should I eat the California roll? Would I go to the like new Cheicko buffet? What? Do you ever just think so much? So hard about like an idea that's so stupid that it just fries your brain. Is that what you don't remember what we talked about the all the way up until now. I'm just thinking about Panda Express.
Speaker 7:You said is it problematic that I like that expression,
Speaker 4:but maybe you ask me like is it problematic to you? You see it as, I mean you have met people that see it as a problem. Oh, you got a panda express, your canceled. I mean I probably met maybe like I've probably met at least one person that would say that.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:Just in my journey. Let me ask you a question. Is there a panda express in[inaudible] near UC Berkeley? Yes. Oh then like a 20 minute drive, I would say no way. We have zero. We don't have one here. You know what we have, I mean we have a fair, we have lots of locally owned Chinese restaurants.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:I mean we had a couple, Berkeley actually had a surprising lack of Chinese good Chinese restaurants.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:Oh it's so sad to hear that pets, which also like I don't understand cause like okay I'm going to show on this place cause they deserve it. There's this place called okay, maybe they don't deserve it. But there was this post, Paul thought about your garden called what? And there's this place called TC garden and it was the bland, actually there were two places. One a cell site, two letters, t and C. Yeah. It was the blandest Chinese food ever. I N I don't know how you make Chinese food gland.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:Uh, use light soy sauce. Like imagine eating fried rice and it doesn't taste like anything. Um, I feel like this is a personal preference thing. Maybe it's an authentic to like people who were deprived of good flavor. Okay. Anyway, I don't, I mean like, um, uh, I don't know. I think there's probably a lack of, uh, Chinese restaurants that are authentic in your area because lots of the Chinese people in your area are busy being innovative, working on Sushi radios. But that might just be me cause like you can't, I mean every great idea has like a thousand iterations before it. So probably there's like a Sushi Rito, a Sushi Taco. That one's hard to say. A to Sushi. There we go. Um, and no, I mean like, so in my area at least we don't have panda express cause we have like other restaurants that are, that do the same job. We have a place called Dragon Express. Shout out dragon express cash only. It's great if you go to, um, I already said this last episode. If they have Qingdao beer and cash only. You're, you're, you're safe. You're secure. You're a home. Yeah, like the, all of the, that could make lucky cat less problematic right now as if they were cash. Oddly lucky cat by Gordon Ramsay. Okay. I have a question. Yes. What do you think about Asian businessman? Where in Western business attire. Like suits. Yeah. I don't know how that came to be. What do you think about French people who speak English? What? Like French politicians.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:It's just like why do like why do Asian people where Western business attire. So I'm asking like, so when you go, so for example, what, what do you call the thing in model un? The dress code. Western business attire. WPA. And why is it called Western business attire?
Speaker 5:Hmm.
Speaker 4:Because of imperialism. Okay. And why does Western, why is Western business attire mandatory in model un? Because of imperialism. Okay. Listen, if you want to be negative about it you can. But I'm just thinking like if, well yeah, as cause of imperialism actually it's cause of imperialism but, huh. IBM. If you ask me, I represented China once and if I showed up dressed in traditional Chinese business attire, that'd be a big Gigi. You're effectively just like trying to alien it the most of the Western world. And I think that it's not a problem that, I mean like obviously it's not a problem that they were a western business attire because like that's the standard. Right. Um, but I also think that like if you're trying to do business and you're doing business with Westerners, you are wearing western business attire, but also in lots of these countries, like we're going to keep bringing up Japan for some reason. But in Japan at least, um, like after World War Two, I'm pretty sure Japan just became like a segment of America for awhile, which is kind of rough. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But the thing is that's accurate. I can't hear what you're saying. You frozen?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Oh, you're cutting out a bit too. Oh, hello?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Hello? Hello. Oh, hello. Why is this going to happen every third episode or so? Um, I mean, I can't see you. Can you see me? I can see you. I can't see me though. Yes. Say you say me. Um, I'll also, my levels are like ridiculous, odd, uh, Adobe audition. Yeah. Cause he keeps screaming into the fucking mic. I'm not doing anything wrong. Okay. I'm just telling you dude, this is why you have to compress your audio before you're normalize it and not the other way around. Did I do the other way around? No, I'm just saying this is why. Oh, check me out. I'm Stevie's egg. I know so much about audio production. I have my own podcast. I wait for, um, I am presented my final presentation tomorrow. I have an about me slide. One of the bullet points is producer and cohost of no coast oriental. And then one when I click that, the button that animates it appearing, our logo also appears sick. Dan Company has a, has a no civilization policy. But this is how I get around it. I mean I feel like no. So like you are a solicitor for being a just for mentioning your podcast. Yeah. Like, you're not, I'm not, you don't ask him to pull up to work, walk outside of your building as start knocking out the doors. I just walked into the office and go, hello. Welcome to Noco story. Hansel. Yeah. And then you give a disclaimer. Uh, okay. And dominant cultures be appropriated. Yes, definitely. Like Asian people appropriating white people. We already talked about this. The answer is yes. Yeah. But um, I think if you dissect the word cultural appropriation is making a culture appropriate and isn't, isn't the dominant culture already appropriate?
Speaker 3:Wait,
Speaker 4:does that Piss you off?
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:Yes. I think the notion of a dominant culture being appropriate is, uh, maybe problematic. So you don't think a dominant culture can be appropriated? No, I, I do wait. You do think it can be, yeah, but isn't the dominant culture already appropriate? No. By I'm Ma, I'm saying that the notion that the dominant culture is appropriate is problematic. Not the fact that it can be approved. Oh. So the entire idea that the question I just asked is like not appropriate because it can't happen. Wait, I'm so confused. How, how much sleep have you got? Can a dominant culture be appropriated? Yes or no? Yes. So you think it can be? Yes. Okay. I agree. I think that if I owed a Chinese restaurant and started serving Schnitzel, that it would be very, very confusing, but also would be total appropriation. Wait, but is that cultural appropriation
Speaker 3:okay?
Speaker 4:Yup. Yes. Why do you say it's so reluctantly? I don't know what to say anymore. Are you okay? Yeah. Fine. Um, so, so I mean say, uh, for example is insidious. The movie directed by James wan and, and Asian Australia and I believe is that cultural appropriation?
Speaker 3:Hmm.
Speaker 4:I mean, I haven't watched any of them. I just think it's outrageous that an Asian director can make a movie about white people.
Speaker 3:Oh, is this a bit right now? I'm so confused. I am, because I'm asking you,
Speaker 4:it is like if you live, if you're an Asian American and you produce content that is similar to a dominant culture, are you appropriating that culture or just buying into being there? No. Okay. I get what you're saying. Yeah. I still can definitely read
Stevie:about experiences that aren't your own go. For example, eighth grade. Have you seen that movie? No.
Speaker 4:Oh my God. You're going to dive into a story from when you were in eighth grade, dude, you have to see eighth grade by Bo Burnham. It is maybe the best movie of this past year.
Stevie:What did Bo Burnham do in this movie? He was the director. It was his debut film movie about it followed the law like in eighth grade girl around like what? It's like being in eighth grade in today's world with like social media and stuff. What does this have to do with appropriation? Are you appropriating eighth grade culture? The point I was making was that you don't have to, you can write about it, about experiences that aren't your own. Yeah. And a respectful and intelligent way. That's true. Um, another example, John Green, one of the best, uh, young and ma, uh, now you're on my young adult authors of today. Uh, you know,[inaudible] the fault in our stars. The main character is a, a female whose has terminal cancer or I don't know. I can't remember if it's terminal, but that's cancer. Um, you know, so yeah, you can definitely write about a experiences that are not, yeah,
Speaker 4:well, yeah. Yeah, but that's not the question I'm saying is insidious. Do I? I don't know. I haven't seen the movies. Okay, fine. Have you seen the first saw movie? No, I'm familiar with saw though. You've seen the salt? Uh, one of the saw movies, at least I've not seen any one of them in. It's no, the premise of the song, I know the premise and I'm pretty familiar with the overall plot actually. So it's directed by the same Guy James wan, who is a Asian Australian. If he's making a movie and all the characters are white people, is he appropriating white culture by making a movie? No, I think that's ridiculous. Okay, so that's ridiculous. So you can't appropriate white culture, wait, what the dominant culture cannot be appropriated is that we can, why
Stevie:what? Give an example. K Pop, K pop. What does k-pop appropriate? Early two thousands boy band music
Speaker 4:that's not appropriating the dominant culture because they're Korean and from Korea the dominant culture is Korean. They're no, but the culture they're appropriating is early two thousands boivin culture, which American effectively there they're there. They're appropriating something that isn't their own because they are people in the dominant culture. If you told me it was okay, if you said that there was a group of black Korean individuals who started a k pop group, would that be cultural appropriation? What so suppose, okay, what is the majority, uh, race in Korea? Korea. Okay. That is the dominant culture in Korea. Is that not correct? So k-pop groups are not appropriating the dominant culture because they are not appropriated Koreans. I'm viewing it and in a much more global sense, I'm a globalist. Oh, the glow was the globalist. Okay. So what's the dominant culture globally? So I'm seeing that in this case it's cultural appropriation because
Speaker 5:okay.
Speaker 4:Of a dominant culture because the u s is a historically dominant culture, but isn't the dominant culture bike by people, Chinese people.
Speaker 5:What
Speaker 4:I mean, we have the most people. We don't even have the most people. India does India past China, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Oh, congratulations. T series. Okay. Just because we have lot of people, it doesn't mean they're dominant.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:But like by, by that logic, like Vatican city would be the least dominant country. But it's, I did, I did quote air quotes you couldn't see. But it's a definitely wields a lot of power.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:Oh, I see. We're talking about culture. Culture can transcend race. What are you okay, I'm okay. I'm just asking questions because what I'm trying to figure out, right. I'm asking a question. Can Dominant cultures be appropriated? And I think this is a, this is a hard question. Um, so let me, let me try and,
Speaker 5:okay.
Speaker 4:Rank the cultures. Most the least dominant. I kid you ranked the cultures. Let's talk about America. Okay. America number one, definitely. Well, no, I'm talking about subcultures in America. So there's Asian American communities, right? There's white American communities. Can you rank these cultures based on most to least dominant? I don't know if this is a good idea. I think we can just say like white culture is dominant and other cultures are not. Okay. So you live in America, you are Asian American. Yeah. Can you appropriate white culture?
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:Yes. Why? How give exam? Uh, I guess like the current EDM scene might be a good example.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:Cause I think we've talked about this before where like I'm eating, I'm seen right now is like very white, but a lot of Asians are kind of like taking on it as an aspect of our own culture.
Speaker 3:[inaudible]
Speaker 4:can you define appropriate? Because to me it sounds like, yeah, Asian people listen to EDM. Thus it is now more appropriate. You have less approach. Okay. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. I think maybe you're confusing. Appropriate. The verb with appropriate, the adjective a appropriate versus appropriate. Yeah. Okay. There's a reason why appropriate as a word because it comes from the English appropriate yet. What is that not correct? When you create culture, you are effectively doing something that is making it seem more appropriate because you are doing it. Isn't that true? Okay. Appropriate adjective, suitable or proper in the circumstances. Appropriate verb take in parentheses, something for one's own use typically without the owner's permission. Ah, fake news is it has nothing to do with being appropriate fake news because cultural appropriation, white people wearing cheap Paul. Yeah. This is white people wearing clothing that is seemingly more appropriate than when the DA, when the culture itself, Dunno dude, this bit sucks. This is a bit eyecare toe. Everything we do on this show is about bit where I'm so confused right now. So you say your say Asians can appropriate white people and your examples, EDF. Well my original example is k pop appropriating boy band culture. Yeah, but that doesn't, that's not necessarily correct because Koreans are the dominant culture in Korea. Okay. I think maybe we have a fundamental different understanding of what cultural appropriation is. That is what we found out in this episode. At the very start for five minutes I read two sources that defined cultural appropriation and run them says the adoption of elements of one culture by members of another culture. You're saying Asian Americans listen to EDM as adopting white culture. Yes. That's kind of correct. You're kinda right there. But do you think that the process, a member of a dominant culture takes or uses aspects of another culture? Is that Asian people listening to EDM?
Speaker 3:Okay.
Stevie:No, cause I wouldn't consider Asian people the dominant culture.
Speaker 4:Right. Because we ranked them obviously. So interesting. So you would say that the Wikipedia definition is a, is the one you are using? E? Yeah. Okay. I agree. I'm just trying to keep you a, I'm just trying to make sure that you're awake. Huh?
Stevie:I honestly can't tell if the last 20 minutes was a bit or not.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:Uh, you can catch me when I turned 21 at the comedy addict open mic night in Bloomington, Indiana. What a garbage plug. All right. Not even going there anyway. Um, is there anything else we wanted to touch on?
Speaker 3:Oh
Speaker 4:wait, I don't think we answered the question. What question can dominant culture is being appropriated? Yes. Okay. As the sort of gets the answer. Yeah. Okay. So can Asian-Americans appropriate Asian culture? Yes. Uh, I think that one's a little more complex. Okay. Um, wait. Yeah, I don't think we, we talked about Boba at the just moved on immediately to the pit.
Speaker 3:Yup.
Stevie:Um, I, okay. I think when it would qualify as cultural appropriation, uh, it would qualify as culture appropriation. If, um, an Asian American has adopted aspects of Asian culture without full understanding of the meaning or context.
Speaker 3:Mm.
Speaker 4:Do you think Asian American culture and Asian culture of these two, which one is dominant?
Speaker 3:Oh my God.
Stevie:I would say Asian American culture just because it's American.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:So you think American is dominant? Yes. I think lots of Chinese people would disagree with you, especially as the second most populous nation in the world. Also, lots of people in Congress are saying that China's taking over the world. How can you take something over your, you're not dominant.
Stevie:I, okay. I think by dominant they mean that historically this country has been in an oppressor position.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Stevie:And the flip side is historically that country has been an in an oppressed position.
Speaker 4:Damn. That's watertight. There we go. Thank you for joining us. The best episode of no Coast Oriental. Okay. I mean, yeah, I think we hit all the major points. Uh, I have been getting feedback that short episodes might be better. So, uh, this is, would be a good place to end it. Um, what are, what are some key takeaways? Um, key takeaways? Uh, yes, the weight does start from the beginning. I'm sorry. Cultural appropriation is when a culture adopts elements from another culture. Yeah. Is this okay? It's a neutral term. Sometimes it's bad, sometimes it's good. B stylers is probably definitely bad. Um, she, she read out nature. Still add? We don't know. Oh yeah, the hunk, the hung jury right here. Uh, I think it's more of that like, I think it's more of that other sort of thing in a court. They don't let you go onto a court if you know about it. Really. I Dunno. I've never, oh, there's like a, yeah, there's a sort where you can say, yeah, they're guilty, but when he doesn't deserve a punishment, that's the, as you read out, I do not understand what you just said. Um, when you're in court. Okay. There's a way. There's a up, we're wrapping up the podcast. Okay. Okay. Um, so I think one of the takeaways is that, um, I think a good rule of thumb is as long as you're respectful and honest, like full disclosure, uh, you get full disclosure by like your positionality and you do your due diligence to, um, did you do a due diligence to educate yourself on the culture? I, for example, I imagined Gordon Ramsey has done a good job of this with, uh, uh, what does it le Lucky go lucky cat and there's duck lucky cat, the reasonably authentic Chinese restaurant. Yeah. So I think as long as you do your due diligence to, uh, to educate yourself, um, the great example would be like rich Brian changing his name. Uh, oh, here's performing name. Yeah. Um, I think as long as you do that, than that's a good rule of thumb. It might not always work, but I think you can reasonably expect to be seen in a good life. Yeah. By most people. Um, all in all, uh, for me at least, I think that it's, I mean, just don't be a dick. Yeah, actually, yes. Yeah. Like, come on. It's like if you do something and you're like naive about it and you're like, oh, and I think less is okay, then I feel like people will forgive you for it, but if you're like doing it and you're like, this will piss some people off.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:What are you doing? Don't, don't be an edge word. Yeah. Um, other than that, like, just like in your own life, try to be reasonably authentic. Yeah. That's a really dumb, those two words are, I thought it was funny at first, but now it's, they have some significant meaning to me. Dude, that should be on our first march. Reasonably authentic dominant culture. Right. Gum you rake up. No, that should be what I view it as a binary like dominant and
Speaker 3:oh,
Speaker 4:sub hotdog and not hotdog. What's best for Silicon Valley. Oh, I don't watch that. Oh, aw. Shit. Although I have met an actress on that show
Speaker 3:who
Stevie:I'm Milana van troop.
Speaker 4:No, was, I don't know. So we also learned that Asian Americans can appropriate Asian culture sometimes. Um, gray area. Yeah, dominant cultures that might be a gray area, but we know that David had cultures could be appropriated. Um, if you guys,
Stevie:you have any questions you want us to answer or comments you want us to think about or any, uh, episode idea, suggestions, feel free to, uh, comment on our Facebook posts. If we may. I'm not sure if we make those, but if we make those comment on Facebook posts, um, uh, tag us at the Hashtag no coast oriental Twitter. Uh, we're also on Instagram at no cost oriental and for longer form. Um, or more private messages you can send us or more, more for more anonymity. You can send us an email@nocostorientalatgmail.com. Um, I've been Stevie,
Speaker 4:I've been James and I still am. We'll see you in the next one. Doodles.